America sucks?

Post by **ADF-DaNi** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:06 am

I found this in the forum I'm apart of. Some British person started this discussion and this is what she said.

I just watched a YouTube video entitled:
"America Sucks"
Now, don't start flaming me because I said one thing, k? o_o;

One of the comments was this:
"A good video but Americans are to stuck up to think about these facts and learn from these mistakes. They will continue to start meaningless wars in the name of their 'great nation'."
But another said this:
"so is this video implying that we DESERVED sept. 11th?"
Which of course, was replied by flaming:
"Yeah, you deserve that and even worse. Why do you still on war? You want peace? Or maybe you just want to kill people and still untouched? Your gov. is imperialist and terrorist, what you expect of the victims, you expect them to stay shut and still stand while you kill their families? What if it were you in their place? You **** selfish. Keep on with your life, you have nothing to do with it, it's only Bush's fault. What a loser..."

So, what exactly is true?
Does America suck?
Did it deserve September 11th?
Don't flame me, but I say yeah.

There were a lot of replies back saying nothing but

No America does not suck. No America did not deserve 9/11. Yes our President is an idiot.

I had to leave a reply on this. I got so mad about this topic I had misspelled a lot of things and kept going on and on. Here's my reply:

Rolling Eyes It's not Bushes fault. And I can't believe that people complain about the troops. THEY SIGNED UP FOR THE ARMY FOR A REASON! People seem to not get that through their thick little heads and always finding to blame things on Bush. All American's should be proud of their troops standing up for their country. America did not serve 9/11. America did nothing wrong. The Iraqies attacted America first when Bill Clinton was in office but did he do anything? NO! Bush wasn't going to just sit back in his million dollar chair and watch America fall by attacks from the Iraqies or w/e .. middle easterns. Bush is doing something right about sending troops over. It wasn't really his choice ... the U.S. senates deside on that. Rolling Eyes For those people who think that the war in Iraq is wrong and should send our troops back ... why the hell do you think we have the military? PLEASE INLIGHTEN ME! We're in war everyday with other things before 9/11 .... you can not stop war ... besides ... we're helping the middle east ... now they can vote ... it was all because of the war .... now please tell me this ... doesn't that make a difference? I could go on and on about this issue ... but I have other things to do so .... there's most of the things I believe is right ...
I don't know why I typed that much .. prob half of you or more than half won't even read it. I'm not going to debate so don't expect a another comment ...
This topic pisses me off... Rolling Eyes ... Are you Communist or Socialist? If you are then why are you so quite to critisize the country that brings democracy to more people than anyone else in the world?

Please tell me your opinion on this topic. Oh and please do not put childish comments. I want a real educational answer. If you don't know then don't post. It annoys me when people post stupid things about this and they don't really know what's going on. They just say what everyone else says.

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:48 am

I would say that most of the troops had no option but to sign up for the army, this is due to employment. Personally I think that the American government is corrupt.

I'll keep a eye on this topic and will be locked if it goes too far. Don't want to upset the mighty government funded spys.

Post by **Aussie** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:49 am

Dani Your forgetting September 11 was Before Dumb Bush put his useless untrained troops in iraq

Nobody Deserves to die dani, Look at this post please,

http://www.adfteam.com/modules.php?name ... pic&t=2349

Post by **ADF-DaNi** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:52 am

Aussie wrote:Dani Your forgetting September 11 was Before Dumb Bush put his useless untrained troops in iraq
Nobody Deserves to die dani, Look at this post please,

http://www.adfteam.com/modules.php?name ... pic&t=2349

I saw that on your clan site. It made me cry x.x lol
And of course 9/11 was before Bush put the troops in Iraq. It was for a good cause.
Ok aussie ... you must understand that it is up to the congress to send troops or not. It's a magarity rules between the house of reps and the senates. Apparently in this situation most of them voted yes on sending the troops out over seas. Bush may have brought up the idea and pushed it, but people shouldn't blame everything on Bush.
Sniper ... I do agree that our Government is messed up but that's only because most of the Americans who speak out more are self sintered Liberals who want to take over the rights from the people and make the US people's votes not count and make our country into a socialist country. They try to make us look bad by complaining about everything the president does or say. And our unemployment rate is less than 5% no one else in the world can say that. They chose to sign up for patriotic reasons.

Post by **CritiCAl** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 12:52 pm

well just on that unemployment thing

australia arent far from that

i think its 6

Post by **ADF-Freeman** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:56 pm

" The Iraqies attacted America first when Bill Clinton was in office but did he do anything?" -
Jeez i didn't know Iraq attacked America - Can someone fill me in when that happened ? . I Know AL-qaeda ( not iraqi, nothing to do with iraq ) Declared war on the U.S in '98 , and they invaded Afganistan in '02 for the attacks on 9/11, Do all the americans really think there was W.M.D in iraq ? they've proved there wasn't, why do they all think that the war is for a good cause, iraq was one of the most well off countries in the middle east, now its a hole because of Bush, Americans know the war wasn't about WMD'S or Humanitarian issues, it was a war to get oil because a growing China, thats now more powerfull then the U.S is looming down and could wipe
it from the face of the earth.

- Feel sorry for the young american fighting men Dieing overseas for NO reason, they're not Protecting their homes, they were never at risk from Iraqi's to begin with.

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:54 pm

ADF-DaNi wrote:
Aussie wrote:Dani Your forgetting September 11 was Before Dumb Bush put his useless untrained troops in iraq
Nobody Deserves to die dani, Look at this post please,

http://www.adfteam.com/modules.php?name ... pic&t=2349
I saw that on your clan site. It made me cry x.x lol
And of course 9/11 was before Bush put the troops in Iraq. It was for a good cause.
Ok aussie ... you must understand that it is up to the congress to send troops or not. It's a magarity rules between the house of reps and the senates. Apparently in this situation most of them voted yes on sending the troops out over seas. Bush may have brought up the idea and pushed it, but people shouldn't blame everything on Bush.
Sniper ... I do agree that our Government is messed up but that's only because most of the Americans who speak out more are self sintered Liberals who want to take over the rights from the people and make the US people's votes not count and make our country into a socialist country. They try to make us look bad by complaining about everything the president does or say. And our unemployment rate is less than 5% no one else in the world can say that. They chose to sign up for patriotic reasons.

actually all us general troops come under the direct command of nca (national command authority) ie. sitting president or vice pres. the only thing the senate and reps have authority over is the money. as to the unemployment rate ours is less than 5%.

ADF-Freeman wrote: Feel sorry for the young American fighting men Dieing overseas for NO reason, they're not Protecting their homes, they were never at risk from Iraqi's to begin with.

i would like capt and any one else who has served to comment on this. as far as i'm concerned the people in the military VOLUNTEERED they knew that war is always a possibility. If they didnt want to serve they shouldn't have joined. the thing i think is disgusting is the senate and reps refusing to buy the proper equipment for the troops ie. sub standard body armor for front line troops while the security contractors have top of the line armor. as far as i'm concerned that is the disgusting thing and bush has no control over it.

Post by **ADF-DaNi** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:55 pm

Baby ... I love your answer. I was just waiting for you to reply to this. I know your unemployment rate is less than 5%. I've looked at different countries unemployment rate. The fact is that 5% is not that far off from you guys. I was just providing the unemployment rate to Sniper to prove him wrong. 5% is not a bad unemployment rate. Now to the Senate and house ... like I said before they have to make a vote before doing anything so technically it is up to them if the troops go to war or not. Now this is what I learned in U.S. Gov. class about the senate and reps voting. And you are right about the only thing the senate and reps have authority over is the money. Please Baby correct me if I'm wrong about the votes because this is what I learned in school. The President does not have full power and all the United States actions have to be voted upon. (and I do have an issue over the American schools but we're not talking about that)

i would like capt and any one else who has served to comment on this. as far as i'm concerned the people in the military VOLUNTEERED they knew that war is always a possibility. If they didnt want to serve they shouldn't have joined. the thing i think is disgusting is the senate and reps refusing to buy the proper equipment for the troops ie. sub standard body armor for front line troops while the security contractors have top of the line armor. as far as i'm concerned that is the disgusting thing and bush has no control over it.

And for this. There's not argument over this because it's totally true. I'll get back to you Freeman after school .... I don't have time for anymore right now.

Post by **ADF-Dizz** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:18 pm

Dani
I could rave on for hours about this but I am not going to go there - unfortunately I was conscripted and I had no choice in the matter at all - so guess how I feel - it has totally stuffed my life - untold/unknown damage to my kids/grand kids etc. married twice my fist wife said that I was a totally different guy when I came back we got married anyway- lasted 7 years - my second wife Sylvia has had to put up with a lot of sh*t but she has hung there -and I love her dearly for that - and she has helped a hell of a lot. I have 3 kids from 2 Marriages -
the 2 boys - one tried to commit suicide by OD on heroin - he was saved by quick acting paramedics - he nows is just getting himself right again he is 27 -
my other son 30 has one broken marriage and the second one is a bit shakey- one Grandson who is absolutely great and my daughter 18 has a myriad of health problems - and that is because of my time in the army over in Vietnam for 308 days. Where there was heaps of unknown chemicals used in the name of peace.."Agent Orange" being the best cocktail of them all. Now I did not volunteer for this................ where do you want to start???

And I am not taking this out on you, I care about you and thats that.

Dizz (Graeme)

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:45 pm

sorry dizz i didn't know you were conscripted. I'm sorry if i have stired up any unwelcome and unneeded memories.

I don't agree with the way the us involved them selves in Vietnam (not saying there shouldnt have been involvement just the way the involvement was limited),

and i disagree with the way troops have been involved in Iraq. but regardless of your views on the legality or otherwise of the us invasion of Iraq (by international law the invasion is perfectly legal because several un resolutions regarding no fly zones and others. every time the Iraqis broke these resolutions they were committing an act of war) the troops are there in a bad situation not necessarily against their will but they certainly don't want to be there. and to avoid the kind of psychological damage reported by Vietnam vets (not saying your nuts dizz but others weren't so lucky) WE MUST SUPPORT THE TROOPS EVEN IF YOU DONT SUPPORT THE WAR.

Post by **ADF-Freeman** » Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:05 pm

I support the War 100% , Its not what has been done, its what can be done now, We can sit around going on about why/how it started, but the first thing we should do is bring those american lads home, personally i belive its not australia's place to comment we have a totall of 900 or so troops over there, thefore we can't talk.

War isn't about who's RIGHT, its about Who's LEFT.

Post by **ADF-Dizz** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:49 am

Baby

M88y the war in vietnam - ho chi minh had originally asked the US for help against the french I think it was and they refused, Iran the US was supplying them with arms look what happened there, the american budget or whatever really kicks along when there is a military conflict happening - look I don't support war - Ican hear you say well how do we get around this - who knows -but the world in general needs to sort a lot of these problems out and unfortunately most of these conflicts are based around greed, money, politics and the big one is religion. Peoples interpretation of a specific religious beliefs - I'm not in favour of any mainstream religion - I have my own particular belief with many others - but over time many of the mainstream religions work on fear as the main asoect -like if you do this you'll be damned in hell etc I just hope that I have not offended you in any way,.

War is not neccesary - it inflicts pain and suffering on lots of innocent people - but it has been going on for years and it requires a lot of people to change there ideals.

Look we need to support the troops where ever they are but we also need to get them back home, because regardless of what people say they are suffering each in their own personal way. They don't want to be where ever killing people lets face it.

The bottom line is that if you are in the military you a paid killer for whatever Government is in power. And supporting their ideals which are not necessarily the ideals of the general populace.

look m88y unfortunately we could go on for hours, but I did my time in Nam I was basically poop scared, being only 21 at the time - straight out of civvy-street
did not want to go really ('cause I might die)

I've got to take my wife to workso I'll have to go

Dizz

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 1:44 pm

the biggest problem in this world is that the weak of mind will always be prey for those who are strong, for good or evil.

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:43 pm

I think ill go with what Dizz said. Unless you have been there you really don't know what war is. Its a shame some countries are not as peaceful as Australia. Just if someone could create a NUKE that eats up all gunpowder so we can do away with guns.

Post by **Archon** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:31 pm

"As long as there is Men, There will be war"
- Toby Smith, Australian Beer Drinking Div.

There are no winners in wars, ask the vets...

I only think that America sucks because comparing it to australia (which i am very patriotic about.. eyy i got that tatto to prove it) But did America deserve to be attacked? maybe, BUT did Innocent people deserve to die?! NO. Deos anyone deserve to die? yes, Child Molesters and Murderers. As far as september 11 when.. i lost a family friend, Do i want revenge? NO.. if i did, then it would be a countinous circle of hate.. a spiral ending with the downfall of man. Personally as long as Australia isnt attackd then im pretty happy.. not that i dont care about other people, its just that it isnt our problem.. Im not going to send my son overseas to die for people who dont want to help themselves.. i.e Iraqies.. If the Iraqies started a rebellion against Saddam then id gladly give them Aid, but not send my people, infact my Aussie Brothers to die for them, its thier problem, not ours.. If we learn to keep our noses out of it, then we'd all be better off.

again, with september 11, This was a cowardly attack against Civilian Targets. This was Terrorism. Would u hate me because my brother stole from u? well why should u hate ME because of my government... People are stupid, uneducated and Biased. I try and look @ things with 3 veiwpoints (important things)
With my heart - Morally Right Decisions
With my Logic - Educated Reasoning
Without Bias - Unwarrented Hate..

If god told me to kill someone, id tell him VERY plainly.. : 'Get F$%KED' - And i am a devout christian....

Never follow Blindly. Peace.
(ps. This is my own veiwpoint wiht bias please dont flame because of wat of siad, Just express your own views in a non-derogitory way! happy posting)

Post by **Archon** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:38 pm

ADF-Baby wrote:the biggest problem in this world is that the weak of mind will always be prey for those who are strong, for good or evil.

Couldnt of been siad better... 100% on the money

Post by **ADF-Dizz** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:03 pm

Mans biggest problem is ???? and everyone has it

and it is EGO

learn to control or live without it and you solve the problem of wars and lots of other problems.

PS Just a note from the North Vietnamese Army powers to be - be very aware of the australian army they are professional soldiers who know how to fight Respect them(they would rather fight the US than Aussies.

HOOAH

Post by **ADF-Freeman** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:11 pm

yea the aussies PWN U.S anyday, we have ALOT less meaning ours are 5 times better trained.

- but lets not turn this into America Vs Australia.

PS. Who invented over the horizon Rader - W00t australians did.

Australia is pwnzor l33t. don't mess with us, just like the iranians we'll yell at you and you'll get scared. ( refering to the boat incident )

- yes i've had a few

Post by **ADF-DaNi** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:41 pm

ADF-Freeman wrote:yea the aussies PWN U.S anyday, we have ALOT less meaning ours are 5 times better trained.

- but lets not turn this into America Vs Australia.

PS. Who invented over the horizon Rader - W00t australians did.

Australia is pwnzor l33t. don't mess with us, just like the iranians we'll yell at you and you'll get scared. ( refering to the boat incident )

- yes i've had a few

Now this is what I call a childish post. I'm sorry guys but the American army has helped more countries than any other country. This is the 21st centery. There is an other way to solve things without war. Just face it ... before this war in Iraq the sertain tribs who talked bad about Sodom were killed on the spot. They could not speak out for themselves. You go over there and ask those Iraqies if they are glade that the Americans come over. Women over there could not get an education. Women over there didn't have any rights. Like I said earlier ... people couldn't stand up against Sodom because they would have gotten shot. It was like war between the Iraqies citizens and the Governmant. I should have worded myself differently before ... It is some of the Tribes over there that need to be dominated not all Iraqies. Besides .... if Bush never acted upon 9/11 then the war would have been here in America. In war you want to take the war on the enemies land ... not yours. You know how it would be if we had just sat back and let them come over to our land to start war? You can't help that the sertain tribes over there hated the Americans. They do hate more than just Americans. Besides ... about the w.m.d. ... There are proof that Russia was suppling for the Iraqies ... maybe not w.m.d. we don't really know but they did have connections with Russia. And get this ... for all these years before 9/11 they didn't supply us with Oil. We never got Oil from them. And didn't we help with (I forgot what it was call) With the Kuwait's oil fields burned (wasn't it from the Iraqies or some country over there) My dad was over seas for that for a very long time when I was little. Funny how I don't know much about the war my daddy was in. Anyways ... the people who we are really fighting against don't really have a country of their own. It's not the Iraqies .... I just used them because I forgot the group name ... x.x I bet that looks bad but I can't remember everything. So if the enemy doesn't have a country of their own ... then who are we going to fight? This war wasn't a total crew up .. Americans have helped the Iraqies in a good way and all people want to see is the bad side of it. No one ever wants to see the good part about it. and once again I have to get to school or I'll be late. I'll finish later...

Post by **ADF-Freeman** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:45 pm

Well thankyou Danni for your reply to my " childish post" , i guess only americans are alowed to be patriotic.

Where do we begin with this one ?

Lets begin with the response to the preceding post post is on political Stance, and if im being to hard so be it.

lets begin by taking some of your statements and looking at them.

".if Bush never acted upon 9/11 then the war would have been here in America"

- The war Has came beacuse of the way bush reacted to 9/11, 9/11 was about terrorist and you invaded afganistan, THE CURRENT WAR ( IRAQ) has nothing to do with terrorist, IT NEVER DID.

"In war you want to take the war on the enemies land ... not yours."

- Indeed, so lets carpet bomb Afganistan back to the stone age, and while we're at it we'll invade its next door for no aparent reason.

"There are proof that Russia was suppling for the Iraqies ... maybe not w.m.d. we don't really know "

- Usama ( yes its no Osama, they changed it cause it had USA in it ) declared war on the U.S in 1998, it was the Sates failure to note this that caused 9/11
- IM NOT EVEN GOING TO REPLY IN FULL TO THAT STATEMENT, READ UP OF THE IRAQ-AFGAN WARS, THEN POST.

"... I just used them because I forgot the group name "

- Does anyone find this typical of American's ???
i mean jesus they go on about this great war against terrorsim and the average american can't even remeber the name of the people they are fighting......... think about it.

"bet that looks bad but I can't remember everything"

- ahhh yea.

"With the Kuwait's oil fields burned (wasn't it from the Iraqies or some country over there)"

_ ONCE AGAIN SHOWS THE AVERAGE AMERICANS KNOWLEDGE OF WARS PAST.
- Thats right it was from the Iraqi's because it was orgininally their land untill someone took it off the. gee lets have a think, who takes land off people ?????, hey i guess israel was allways there, and it didn't just pop up in '48

" So if the enemy doesn't have a country of their own "

- yea it got carpet bombed.

"then who are we going to fight? "

- the person with the most oil ?? you won't pick on china will you ? they have the worst human rights reccord ? , acually what about Darfur or another country stuch as that ?
What about the genocide in there, where was america during that ??? how many millions were killed ??? where was Allmighty america then ??? nowhere because it was of no economic interest

"No one ever wants to see the good part about it."

- When your travelling down a back road in a hostile country that doesn't want you there and a donkey and cart turns into a violent explosion in which your left arm is torn off by a piece of shrapnell and you loose 2 of you mates you don't really see the good part about any of it.

- Iraq is fighting america because out of no where you's busted in and destroyed everything, yes women couldn't get schooling etc, but hey what about SAUDI ARABIA - THERE IS LIMMITED SCHOOLING FOR WOMEN, WHY HASN"T AMERICA INVADED THEM ?????? - Gee maybe Its because their your allies, I guess its okay for double standards in America's world.

Call me a terrorist, call me LEFT WING, call me what you want, the world knows this war is for profit, around the world there is Human rights abuses, there is corrupt goverments, no one does anything, because its not profitable.

THE WORLD IS A TERRIBLE PLACE.

Post by **ADF-Freeman** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:51 pm

"didn't we help with (I forgot what it was call) With the Kuwait's oil fields burned "

- Ahh yea you just shut yourself down ?? why do you think america' helped ???????
Was it because kuwait go invaded ??
No it was because iraq started to burn those oilfields.

Answer your own questions about the Â democracy you live in.

I find it pathetic and im ashamed to be western when american's Include 9/11 in the debate about the war in Iraq, When the trade centres fell iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, Can you answer that Danni ?????

Please, My question is...

WHAT DID IRAQ HAVE TO DO WITH 9/11 - THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT,

IRAQ WILL BE THE BIGGES BLUNDER IN MODEN MILITARY HISTORY, BY THE TIME YOU GET OUT 5000 OR SO OF YOUR BOYS WILL BE LOST, AND THE WHAT WAS PEACEFULL COUNTRY WILL TEAR ITSELF APART.
IRAQ WAS PEACEFULL BECAUSE SADAM HAD SUTCH AN IRON GRIPE OVER IT NO ONE DARED TO DO ANYTHING.

Post by **ADF-Dizz** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 10:57 pm

Guys I think this forum has run its course

War is not good on any side - and the problem with war these day is the politicians - you can not have a war and get politics involved - then there is no clear cut end to it all they just CENSORED foot around more people get hurt and it goes on & on and it ends up with a withdrawal.

They have not learnt from Vietnam

And after all that we all become the victims of war

lets end it here guys before we start damaging relationships within our own ranks

Lets all love and respect each other

Over & Out

Post by **ADF-Freeman** » Thu Oct 04, 2007 11:07 pm

I think bill 'oreilly nearly got the last word on this.

Post by **Aussie** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 4:11 am

No one ever wants to see the good part about it. and once again I have to get to school or I'll be late. I'll finish later...

_________________
what good side?
just a question..dani why do you act like you know so so much about the Iraq war? i can admit i dont know much about it or even anything about it.
But you acti like you know every little thing going on over there... "nah nah the iraqi's are happy you just dont see it" <--example of foolishness

i dont mean to personally attack you dani, more of the american part

there will always be the debate my countries better than yours

i agree with anything and everything freeman has said, even if it says my mother is gay

lol love your work freedom!

Aussie Pride FTW! freedom when your in adelaide come to the hampstead, and we'll have a beer n a squash XD in the sports bar lol

[/quote]

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:20 am

ADF-Freeman wrote:Well thankyou Danni for your reply to my " childish post" , i guess only americans are alowed to be patriotic.

TOTALY UNCALED FOR. dani is speaking her mind honestly as she sees the facts

Dani and freeman wrote: ".if Bush never acted upon 9/11 then the war would have been here in America"

- The war Has came beacuse of the way bush reacted to 9/11, 9/11 was about terrorist and you invaded afganistan, THE CURRENT WAR ( IRAQ) has nothing to do with terrorist, IT NEVER DID.

The war in Iraq was suposedly started because of wmds. in reality it was started as retaliation for all the support iraq gives to terorists world wide. the US wont say this because if they provided the world with the proof they have then the whole world will know how they got it. giving away "ways and means" is not somthing any intelegence organization will willingly do, especialy comintel . BTW how hard do you think it would be to go out into the middle of the desert with a semitrailer dig a big deep hole and put the trailer in it? moving sands cover it back up undetectable except with ground penetrating radar?.....Think about it.

Dani and freeman wrote: "In war you want to take the war on the enemies land ... not yours."

- Indeed, so lets carpet bomb Afganistan back to the stone age, and while we're at it we'll invade its next door for no aparent reason.

so are you saying that afghanastan had nothing to do with 911? after bin Laden admited to it? and as for "invading its next door neighbor" its expalined above

Dani and freeman wrote: "There are proof that Russia was suppling for the Iraqies ... maybe not w.m.d. we don't really know "

- Usama ( yes its no Osama, they changed it cause it had USA in it ) declared war on the U.S in 1998, it was the Sates failure to note this that caused 9/11
- IM NOT EVEN GOING TO REPLY IN FULL TO THAT STATEMENT, READ UP OF THE IRAQ-AFGAN WARS, THEN POST.

yes he did declare war on the us after the us had supplied him with weapons and aid for 20+ years fighting the invasion by the ussr into afghanastan. the only reason the ussr wanted afghanastan was to be able to attack the middle eastern oil fields and capture all the oil in a war against the us. infact the ussr had plans to bomb the persian oil fields with nuclear bombs doped with iodine and cobolt to make the land uninhabitable for milions of years. OSAMA (you can call him what ever you want he's only a rodent as far as i'm cocerend) decided to declar war on the us because after the down fall of the ussr it was nolonger necesary to support him.

Dani and freeman wrote: "... I just used them because I forgot the group name "

- Does anyone find this typical of American's ???
i mean jesus they go on about this great war against terrorsim and the average american can't even remeber the name of the people they are fighting......... think about it.

"bet that looks bad but I can't remember everything"

- ahhh yea.

"With the Kuwait's oil fields burned (wasn't it from the Iraqies or some country over there)"

_ ONCE AGAIN SHOWS THE AVERAGE AMERICANS KNOWLEDGE OF WARS PAST.
- Thats right it was from the Iraqi's because it was orgininally their land untill someone took it off the. gee lets have a think, who takes land off people ?????, hey i guess israel was allways there, and it didn't just pop up in '48

Actually freeman the entire gulf was originally owned by the Aryans (yes thats right the same race that hitler decided was the only pure race. should we round up all the iraqis, and iranians, and egiptians, and saudies, ship them all off to some place and let all the people with blond hair and blue eyes take over? yeh good idea maybe while we're at it we should start killing off all the jews again eh? sound good? freeman if you want to start quoting history QUOTE ALL HISTORY not just the parts that suit your argument. and just to high lite another fact. the us didnt take land off iraq iran did. so tell me freeman who did iraq invade in 1989? it wasnt iran that was invaded it was kuwait. totaly diferent country totaly diferent direction

Dani and freeman wrote: " So if the enemy doesn't have a country of their own "

- yea it got carpet bombed.

it didnt get carpet bombed, it never existed in the first place. the ppl who flew in to the wtc werent poor farmers from afghanastan, Fifteen of the attackers were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt, and one from Lebanon. They were university students, and business ownders. so tell me freeman which country should be attacked? should we attack these 4 countries because the terrorists were born there? or should we bomb the countries who support the terrorists and train them?

Dani and freeman wrote: "then who are we going to fight? "

- the person with the most oil ?? you won't pick on china will you ? they have the worst human rights reccord ? , acually what about Darfur or another country stuch as that ?
What about the genocide in there, where was america during that ??? how many millions were killed ??? where was Allmighty america then ??? nowhere because it was of no economic interest

last i checked China and Darfur arent trying to destabilise the world and cause anarchy. China has a string economy and as far as "having the worst human rights reccord" they just have the most publicized human rights violations. The un would have the who world belive that Australia has the worst human rights record because we only spend twice as much on aboriginals as we do on europeans, asians and all the others put together. we should be spending 4 times on them as far as the un is concerend.

Dani and freeman wrote: "No one ever wants to see the good part about it."

- When your travelling down a back road in a hostile country that doesn't want you there and a donkey and cart turns into a violent explosion in which your left arm is torn off by a piece of shrapnell and you loose 2 of you mates you don't really see the good part about any of it.

- Iraq is fighting america because out of no where you's busted in and destroyed everything, yes women couldn't get schooling etc, but hey what about SAUDI ARABIA - THERE IS LIMMITED SCHOOLING FOR WOMEN, WHY HASN"T AMERICA INVADED THEM ?????? - Gee maybe Its because their your allies, I guess its okay for double standards in America's world.

so now your saying that you belive that the us invaded iraq because they dont sent women to school? are you unstable? you cant follow one idea the whole post.

freeman wrote: Call me a terrorist, call me LEFT WING, call me what you want, the world knows this war is for profit, around the world there is Human rights abuses, there is corrupt goverments, no one does anything, because its not profitable.
THE WORLD IS A TERRIBLE PLACE.

m8 you cant just post quotes that suit your argument. you have to be honest about it. if your going to quote, quote every thing relevant to your thaughts not just those that you can poke holes in and ignore the arguments that you cant argue with. its dishonest.

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:35 am

Dani and freeman wrote: "didn't we help with (I forgot what it was call) With the Kuwait's oil fields burned "

- Ahh yea you just shut yourself down ?? why do you think america' helped ???????
Was it because kuwait go invaded ??
No it was because iraq started to burn those oilfields.

Or how bout they invaded to stop iraq destabilising the entire world economy and sending us all into darkages anarchy. do you thing thats a good enough reason? or do all worthwhile causes have to be about saving little children? GET OVER YOUR SELF

freeman wrote:Answer your own questions about the democracy you live in.

I find it pathetic and im ashamed to be western when american's Include 9/11 in the debate about the war in Iraq, When the trade centres fell iraq had NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, Can you answer that Danni ?????

Please, My question is...

WHAT DID IRAQ HAVE TO DO WITH 9/11 - THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT,

you want to start shouting fine ANY COUNTRY WHO SUPPORTS TERRORISTS IS BY INVOLVEMENT ACCORDING TO INTERNATIONAL LAW A TERRORIST NATION. IRAQ HAS SUPPORTED TERRORISTS FOR YEARS AND IS PROUD OF IT. AND BEFORE YOU SAY "WHERES THE PROOF OF SUPPORTING TERRORISTS" SADAM INSANE SAID THAT HE WOULD GIVE THE FAMILY OF ANY SUICIDE BOMBER $25000us (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48822,00.html) THAT IS SUPPORTING TERRORISM.

freeman wrote: IRAQ WILL BE THE BIGGES BLUNDER IN MODEN MILITARY HISTORY, BY THE TIME YOU GET OUT 5000 OR SO OF YOUR BOYS WILL BE LOST, AND THE WHAT WAS PEACEFULL COUNTRY WILL TEAR ITSELF APART.
IRAQ WAS PEACEFULL BECAUSE SADAM HAD SUTCH AN IRON GRIPE OVER IT NO ONE DARED TO DO ANYTHING.

HE KILLS 10,000,000 OF HIS OWN CITIZENS IN ONE ATTACK BECAUSE SOMONE FROM THE PARTICULAR TOWN WAS INVOLVED IN AN ATTACK ON HIM? IS THAT WHAT YOU CALL PEACFULL? YOU SAID BEFORE ABOUT HUMAN RITES AND THAT THE US SHOULD INVADE CHINA BECAUSE THEY HAVE A BAD HUMAN RITES RECORD. WHEN HAS CHINA KILLED 10MILLION OF ITS OWN CITIZENS? DONT SAY TIENIMEN SQUAR COS LESS THAN 2000 DIED THERE.

Post by **ADF-Freeman** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:02 am

He killed 10,000,000 in one single town ?

- you got a source for that one ?

- Bah lets not even bother, this is going no where anyway.

Post by **ADF-DaNi** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:20 am

Aussie wrote:
No one ever wants to see the good part about it. and once again I have to get to school or I'll be late. I'll finish later...
_________________
what good side?
just a question..dani why do you act like you know so so much about the Iraq war? i can admit i dont know much about it or even anything about it.
But you acti like you know every little thing going on over there... "nah nah the iraqi's are happy you just dont see it" <--example of foolishness

i dont mean to personally attack you dani, more of the american part there will always be the debate my countries better than yours

i agree with anything and everything freeman has said, even if it says my mother is gay lol love your work freedom!

Aussie Pride FTW! freedom when your in adelaide come to the hampstead, and we'll have a beer n a squash XD in the sports bar lol

Aussie ... I don't know every little thing that is going on over there. I'm telling what I think, how I feel, and the information I get. I was only stating the facts that I know about. There are some things that baby said that I never knew about. Don't call me foolish ... apparently you are not getting what I was saying. If you don't know then don't say anything. You are just making yourself look ignorant. I don't want to hear or read anymore from you.

ADF-DaNi wrote:Please tell me your opinion on this topic. Oh and please do not put childish comments. I want a real educational answer. If you don't know then don't post. It annoys me when people post stupid things about this and they don't really know what's going on. They just say what everyone else says.

I do believe I said this on the first post. Take a note of this.

Post by **ADF-DaNi** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:21 am

1. We did not attach Afganistan. As a matter of fact, the Afgan army assisted us in finding and flushing out Alkaida. The Afgan people are happy that we helped them get their country back from Muslim extremists.

2. This war is absolutely about terrorists. Who do you think is causing all the trouble and bloodshed. It certainly is NOT the Iraqi people, but the extremists who have hijacked Islam and the middle east.

3. We did NOT "carpet bomb" Afganastan. Once again, you have your facts wrong. Either that or you refuse to see the truth.

4. We did not attack the "next door (neighbor)". We attacked Sadam Hussein and his imperialist Bathist Party. The good Iraqi people were not the target. And you say for not good reason? Sadam Hussein kicked out U.N. inspectors many years before 9/11. And for what reason? He was certainly acting suspicious. Sadam was a threat that needed to be dealt with. And America was not the only nation that thought so. Most of Europe feared Sadam and agreed that he probably had wmd's.

Of course we all know that he had chemical weapons and used them not only against American soldiers, but also other Iraqi's who disagreed with his party, namely the Kurds. I would certainly call that "Mass Destruction" of human life.

5. Osama actually declared war on us back in the '80's, we just didn't know it yet. Colonel Oliver North warned our politicians of this evil man way back then and that we would eventually have to deal with him.

6. 'Iraqi' was used as a general term because we couldn't remember the specific tribe. Can you name all the tribes in Iraq?

7. No one in America thinks that this war is "great". We ALL want it to end. But war is one of those necessary evils if you are to survive in this world. We should certainly not hesitate to war against pure evil especially when it wishes to annilate you. These terrist want nothing less than to wipe us off the face of the earth. And you think we should just sit and take it? What would you do if your country was threatened in this way? Cower in fear? If you do that, you will most certainly be annilate. And I know that the leaders of Australia would not take it. As a matter of fact, don't you know that Australian troops are right there in Iraq supporting us? But I suppose you are an anti-war woosey no matter whose country is threatened. Make no mistake, to Muslim extremists, Aussies are 'Infidels' just as much as Americans. And after they destroyed us, you would be next! They are against ALL Christians, period. Oh! Are you athiest?
Final word on this, the best policy is "Peace through Strength", as stated by one of America's greatest presidents, Ronald Reagan.

8. America cannot save the world. But, America does pour billions upon billions of dollars into such third world countries as Darfur, just to name one. America is the most cheritable country in the world. We give more money to third world countries than the rest of the world combined. And see what thanks we get? People like you just spit in our face. And where is the rest of the world when we have a great catastrophy? Hurricane Katrina was the first time in the history of the world that anyone else has offered to help.

9. So what if America "protects its own interest?" Every country in this world does that. They would be fools not to. As for China, would you go provoke the biggest bully in your school or neighborhood? I thought not. Why would we provoke China when, lets be honest, they could wipe us off the face of the earth. But that works both ways. China isn't about to pick a fight with us either. So, with that being said, we do not have the threat of being attacked by China. And as for their human right record, that problem is quickly dimenishing. They are becoming more and more democratized by the day. They know that they must in order to compete in this world.

10. Freedom is NOT free. It is NOT true that all Iraqi's want us out of there. We are doing a lot of good things there that MOST Iraqi's are thankful for. It is their own radicals which are planting bombs and blowing innocent peoples arms off. American troops have never planted bombs on donkey carts. We are a little bit more technological than that. We can pinpoint our target to within feet from miles away, thus killing the bad guys. and minimizing colateral damage. You must admit, war is far more humane these days than it ever was before. No one will deny that the death of innocent people is a sad and unfortunate thing. But in the long run, more lives are being saved from the hands of terrorists every time we kill one.

11. FACT: Iraq is NOT fighting America, leftist extramist terrists are. The majority of attacks on American Troops, and innocent Iraqi civilians as well as American trained Iraqi Troops, are from people who don't even live in Iraq. The common Iraqi civilian is fed up with the hijacking of their religion and their country by radicals. The Iraqi's have a new democratic government which they did not have before, and as a result now have the right to think and speak freely against their government without fearing for their lives.

12. Right, Saudi Arabia are our . . . allies . . . if you want to call it that. But they also have not threatened us. Pressure IS constantly being put on them to improve their human right record and they are making strides in that area.

13. I'm sorry that you feel that "the world is a terrible place." Please don't feel so pessamestic about the world. There is hope. We can't give up on our attempts to destroy evil. If there is no hope, there is no future. Be strong and do good!!!!!

Edit By Deano: Put some spaces in so i could read it

Post by **ADF-Freeman** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 11:41 am

Bah i was going to let this all go but Just one Cut and quote.

"You must admit, war is far more humane these days "

- War Is never humane, It will never Be.

Let us all end this topic.

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:00 pm

First of all lets all tame it down a little....remember this is a discussion and a forum meaning everyone has a point of view.No ones point of view is right as we all see things differently.So please respect all members when you post.

Most people say "the war is just about oil".But in hind site its about money and power.Everything in one way or another is about money.Iraq is very poor for the amount of oil and gas resources it has.The people there have suffered terribly over the years.Sadam never suffered as he reaped the rewards.What make Sadam more important of a human being then any other Iraq citizen.These people deserve the same rights as us.

Now if it was just about the oil and resources im sure if i was president i would be overtaking the country all together not putting an Iraqy government in power.There current constitution says that....

WHEREAS, ARTICLE 111 of the said Constitution declares Oil and Gas as the property of the whole nation in all Its Provinces and Governorates;

It's like anything unless you've had it happen to you...you cant even imagine what it would be like......

For the point about troops...yes its true.....If your willing to join the forces you know that there is a chance of war.This part of the services and if you dont agree you shouldn't be in the services.As for Volunteering...we'll my grand father whom i never met was recruited and sent to world war 2...he was captured and then detained as a POW at stalag luft for nearly 4 years on which when arriving home found that his wife had died from cancer whilst he was imprisoned...this led to many years of drinking and beating his children whilst drunk.He died at around 40 something years old (im not sure cause no one talks about it.) and i've only just met relatives that i never new i had because my father never spoke to them cause they took my father's sister in and looked after her but not my father or his brother.And im not interested in meeting them again.

But in saying that i would not hesitate to defend my country if needed because i will always protect my families, amd my, way of life.

Now im not sure if i had a point or i was building up to it as ive forgotten but i felt the need to write so i did

Post by **ADF-DaNi** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 12:54 pm

I hope you didn't edit anything else in there but the spacing Deano x.x that took me forever to type.

Oh and thank you for your opinion Deano.

You are right Freeman. But I really should have said that it's less inhumane. (that's right?) I just got myself confused....

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 3:32 pm

ADF-Freeman wrote:He killed 10,000,000 in one single town ?

- you got a source for that one ?

- Bah lets not even bother, this is going no where anyway.

this is just one in a long line of atrocities

wikipiedia wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... m%27s_Iraq
Al-Anfal Campaign: In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. The attacks resulted in the death of at least 50,000 (some reports estimate as many as 100,000 people), many of them women and children. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms, and power stations.

actualy just go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... m%27s_Iraq and look for your self

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:56 pm

Well it looks like our websites been blocked by "The great firewall of China" This topic has been amusing to read and I guess a few things have be learned. Just remember Money and Power thats what will turn people to the dark side. It's a little like Age of Empires.... come to think about it i'm going to have a game of it........ Topic Locked....