Kicking/Banning.

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:56 am

Kicking/Banning.

Kicking and banning players will not be tolerated without a reason why. You must not kick a player if you think they are sus. You must contact a ADF-Admin and present the proof. If a Admin is not online at the time, make a post in this forum. If a player is abusing our members swearing you must give them a warning. If the childish behavior persists then you must mute them.

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:17 am

roger m8....and if ya dont follow the rules maybe admin privilege should be lost

Post by **Bob_Barnicle** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:21 am

Ooooh Oooohh, the foot has been put down now... lets see what happens now

Post by **Fridgt** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:18 am

ok but what should be done if something arises like yesterday with those tkers?
do you think i was to harsh?

Post by **ADF-CaptCC** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:56 am

Well, I don't m88y...

You had two [ people] shooting me to get the sniper rifle, not once i might add..
They were told to stop , and the one player with 9 honour turned around at me and shot me in the Def. tower, the next round he followed me to the tunnel in the def tower and shot me in the back, we were trying to tell him not to be child like or he will be kicked from the server then the next round he shoots me again. The last time , at spawn, i turned around to find him, and he saw me with the gun and shot again and the second player Tking picked up the gun...so for me, it should have been a ""month"" before we should let him back in..

The other player was , shooting me after as well, because i had the sniper , and he was told as were everyone on def at the time , no tk or you'er kicked... which he was , it just happened the two times for him before he was kicked, and i believe he was kicked for a week, the player which, started the TK's was kicked for 24 hour period, i think he should be kicked for a ... month ...
But hay, i'm a mean s..o..b anyhoo....just ask the kids
Capt out

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:50 pm

new server welcome message.

"Welcome to .-=(ADF-Team)=-. Americas army server.
TKing, abusing other players is not alowed but if you do
dont worry nothing will happen because we're not alowed
to kick anyone and dont care about the players in our server.
Have a nice day BTW swear all you like"

there you go sniper just cut and post.

Post by **Wed13** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:00 pm

sounds fair baby

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:04 pm

not to mention accurate

Post by **Wed13** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:10 pm

true true ur a good thinker there baby keep it up

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:52 pm

Fridgt you done good. They should have only got a couple of bullets off before the server killed them. Glad to see your screen shots backed up your story. I'm sure they learned there lesson.

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:59 pm

Let me give an example of what I saw tonight. Some foreigner by the name of bugy99 something or other, is on the server and asks "What is BS". Admin steps in with a comments "Bugy the noob knows nothing" then wonders why the player starts getting mouthy. Swear words ensue and, before he could be removed the server crashed thankfully for Bugy. Now, I ask, who drew 1st blood? And this goes on most nights that I have been on. It starts as one small comments or a slip up and escalates into a banning fest. We goad em till they retaliate then we give em hell.

I'm not suggesting that there shouldn't be instances where it is appropriate to kick or even to the extreme of banning players who hack etc. but it gets ridiculous when we get "the big stick" and wield it without due cause. It just makes the server look laughable in my opinion.

As it stated ages ago, take a screen shot, contact an Admin and wait for the verdict that way we reduce the number of mistakes. It's better to wait a day to ban someone than it is to clear up the mess when someone gets banned for the wrong reason and it seems that there are just as many mistakes made as there are correct calls.

In my opinion - It takes a long time to build trust and only moments to lose it. When we get it right, no-one speaks, but when we get it wrong it takes a lot of back pedaling. It's not a personal mistake we make it's an ADF mistake.

Post by **Wed13** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:31 pm

nobbies plz get ur facts striaght because i was lagging bad and i mean really bad and he kept asking after every1 told him then by that stage i lagged so bad that i decided 2 watch as admin which is what i did then i saw im team say swearing. like our rules say no swearing on our server so i warned him nobbies and he did it agian plus u never said he didnt answer u be4 2. so i muted him not kick or ban muted!!! so i dont care what happens now im fed up with all our "Rules" changing with out us know.

also when members take sides 2 non or ex members and not getting both sides of the story. and im the only one 2 speak up and say what i mean. some1 has a cry we go ok well change the rules just 2 make u happy ok dont worry about it do what u want.

i am fed up with it and so are others if ur going 2 change the rules lets US know and change it on the server. also get both sides of the story and then make a decion either that or get the facts right.

Post by **ADF-CaptCC** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:42 pm

SAME RULE TO EVERYONE

ADIMN OR NOT

If its Kick or Ban, a screenshot is needed...then its need for everyone to kick or ban someone off the server... no exceptions , That's far enough ,
Full Stop
Thanks

[smilie=17.gif]

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:47 pm

Wed - the 1st words u spoke to him was, and I quote, "Bugy the noob knows nothing" - fact. If someone said that to me, admin or otherwise, I would swear too. Fact. If you goad someone you'll get a reaction. Fact. It's human nature.

Post by **Wed13** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:04 pm

first words 2 him i believe was hi and i said it 2 every1 and then i said hi 2 u when u died nobbies not 2 metion i did admin say leave him alone when every1 was picking on him. and i only said what i had said because he was asking question after question, spamming, swearing so lets see i did call him a noob but be4 i was admin also i did tell him off 4 spamming 2 nobbies. do what u must because like i have said its CENSORED up that the rules change and we are all suppose 2 know but yet 1. u dont tell members and server admins and 2. u dont change it on the server.
and so ill quote ADF-Baby on this

ADF-Baby wrote:new server welcome message.

"Welcome to .-=(ADF-Team)=-. Americas army server.
TKing, abusing other players is not alowed but if you do
dont worry nothing will happen because we're not alowed
to kick anyone and dont care about the players in our server.
Have a nice day BTW swear all you like"

there you go sniper just cut and post.

i believe this does suit it also ill quote

ADF-CaptCC wrote:SAME RULE TO EVERYONE

ADIMN OR NOT

If its Kick or Ban, a screenshot is needed...then its need for everyone to kick or ban someone off the server... no exceptions , That's far enough ,
Full Stop
Thanks

if u read it once agian this time cap did not get the full story but believed nobbies when if u read my post i MUTED him ok cap i have ur back agianst kicking chooper but u shoulda read my post. im sick and tired off this and so are others but ill let them have some CENSORED balls and do it them selfs if the want but CENSORED hell i just dont care anymore take away my CENSORED admin powers and the message ull be saying is we dont care about our members just non-members and ex-members. i dont give a CENSORED anymore see this is what happens when u follow the rules basiclly let me sum it up.
people allowed in the server:
1.Hackers
2.TKers
3.People that disobey members and admins
4. people that swear
5.and what eva the CENSORED i can think of or u!

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:11 pm

This can go round and round. My point is, if you call someone a noob your going to get a reaction. If you have to mute, kick, ban or anything else after that, who's to blame? We're supposed to set an example and calling people names and goading them isn't setting an example if you ask me. You say he was swearing and carrying on and I don't disagree - but you can't expect otherwise when you call him a noob. And for what? Asking what "BS" stands for? AFTER that he was swearing and spamming and definately not before then!!!!!!!

You know what I'm sick and tired of? People with the Admin stick wielding like they've never had power before. Thats what I'm sick of.

Post by **Wed13** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:17 pm

well CENSORED.ING take them the F.UCK away because lets see nobbies thats ur POINT i called him a noob AFTER he was doing all the things i said OK!!! like i F.UCKING said F.UCK the power we all know now what happens when some1 has a cry lets not foget cys now shall we!!!!

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:20 pm

well CENSORED.ING take them the F.UCK away because lets see nobbies thats ur POINT i called him a noob AFTER he was doing all the things i said OK!!! like i F.UCKING said F.UCK the power we all know now what happens when some1 has a cry lets not foget cys now shall we!!!!

I do believe Wed13 that your swearing like a trooper. Did I goad you enough now that, against this forums rules, you resort to swearing?

THATS MY POINT

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:55 pm

i just want to know somthings
when was it decided that swearing is ok?
when was it decided that double action keybinds are ok?
when was it decided that the people who pay for the server have no say over what is acceptable behavior in the server?

Post by **Doom** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:57 pm

INO THERES a simple resolution to this!!!!!

WEDS WRONG NOBBIES IS RIGHT [smilie=furax[1].gif] [smilie=furax[1].gif] [smilie=furax[1].gif]

Post by **Aussie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:02 pm

haha yer to tell ya the truth tho guys.....EVERYBODY IS GETTING SOUR WITH THE POUR!!!!! As Sour as it comes fresh from the horses ... I'll stop here

[smilie=jpshakehead.sml[1].gif] [smilie=jpshakehead.sml[1].gif]

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:07 pm

Guys those types of comments arn't helping anyone.

Like i keep saying...do up a complete list of rules that everyone must follow.

Fridgt you done good.

and snipes i'm going to tutor you in english every Tuesday and Thursday @ 4:30PM...no excuses.

Post by **Doom** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:21 pm

Rule zomg soemone said rule i have a rule wed shall not talk out of hand and doom better keep his mouth shut b4 he gets in trouble

YAY jumps in to the land of good were there are flowers and colourful things oooooh look theres nobbies i mean JEBUS

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:22 pm

thats it your english class is at 5:30PM dont be l8

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:23 pm

ADF-Doom wrote:INO THERES a simple resolution to this!!!!!

WEDS WRONG NOBBIES IS RIGHT Â Â Â

precicely

Post by **Aussie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:24 pm

HAng on Deano ur going too fast I'm his maths tutor he hasn't learnt time Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Were up to counting with elmo!

Post by **Doom** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:27 pm

GELMO ZOMG

WAT IS THIS INGLISH U SPEEK OF ARGH VIOLATING ME IN TO DIFFERENT TOPICS HELP

AUSTRALIA SAY NO TO VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:27 pm

ADF-Aussie wrote:HAng on Deano ur going too fast I'm his maths tutor he hasn't learnt time Yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Were up to counting with elmo!

this is unacceptablelele [smilie=laugh[2].gif] [smilie=laugh[2].gif] [smilie=laugh[2].gif]

Post by **Doom** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:31 pm

I WUV WOO MISTER TWUTER DEANO MWAH MWAH BLOWS KISS LOOOK FIRST EVERYONE WAS ANGRY WITH EACH OTHER NOW EVERYONE IS POINTING OUT ON HOW I DONT NO INLGISHE AND MATEMATICS GOODLY YAY

Post by **Aussie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:33 pm

HOW I DONT NO INLGISHE AND MATEMATICS GOODLY YAY

lol like wed- But sorry doom wed is more advanced than u *Wipes smile offa face* ur English Will get better [smilie=jpshakehead.sml[1].gif] [smilie=jpshakehead.sml[1].gif]

Post by **Doom** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:38 pm

You disgust me nobbie shelp me

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 10:44 pm

can we get back to the topic at hand and straighten this out?

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:02 pm

I don't see a resolve.

Your absolutely right. It's quite simple. If the ADF server is going to stay running then those who pay the money will expect the right to run the server however they want otherwise they won't contribute. The fact that, at the end of the day, it is the ADF name that it represents seems to have little or no consequence. I gave the Wed example 'cause it's not the 1st time it's happened like that. Have a look at the bans/kicks in recent times and how many were just plain wrong, too severe or unwarranted. It is a direct reflection of ALL the ADF members and Admins not the individuals who made the decision.

Tonight, a guy came from Israel, hardly speaks a word of English, gets called a noob within minutes and then gets himself into real trouble. His perception of the ADF Server would be?

Maybe I'm wrong in my thinking in which case none of my comments mean squat. I'd like to think that people can come and go on our server and have fond memories and wish to return. Sure, as Admins we have the authority to protect these people from other "wads" who want to make trouble and my feelings are still the same - warn/mute/kick/ban or whatever, but get it right first time 'cause it damages, in my own opinion, the image of ADF. Like I said, maybe our imagine outside of ADF means nothing to some people but for me it does.

But, at the end of the day, people pay money and expect to be able to Admin it as they see fit.

Difficult to see a resolve for that.

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:25 pm

well here's the thing nobbies. i personaly have been the target of abuse by several members of cys. 2 of them were baned by me and others were baned by somone else for similar reasons. and then because they go and B R CH on another website about being baned for abuse we go and say oh we're sorry you can play on our server again. what sort of message are we trying to send here? one day we're saying if you abuse ppl, or use exploits ( dual action keybinds go into this category) YOU WILL BE PUNISHED. now we're saying come into our server, disrespect us, exploit we dont care. if some stupid admin banes you dont worry just come into the forums winge and it'll be over turned.

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:33 pm

Yep I can agree with you there. Taking it to the extreme in most cases but. However, on the other side is:

http://www.adfteam.com/modules.php?name ... highlight=
http://www.adfteam.com/modules.php?name ... highlight=
http://www.adfteam.com/modules.php?name ... highlight=

What sort of message do these send out? This, I don't see, as having anything to do with cys. Why does everyone mention them? I'm talking about here and now, I'm talking about how we conduct ourselves as Server Admins.

Post by **ADF-CaptCC** » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:59 pm

nobbies Quote, But, at the end of the day, people pay money and expect to be able to Admin it as they see fit. ""

I don't think this is 100 % correct, .. m88y

I see , and say it can be resolved... i see it as simple.

Place all the rules as stated, That everyone has to follow, Like Deano said a few times...NOW
IF,
Kick / Ban..needs a screenshot , OK then it needs a screenshot, fine.. If you mute swearing, you need a screenshot for it, before you mute fine....If someone is suss then you need a screenshot , before you kick / Ban / VK / PBK... fine...
Then Everyone has to obey the same rules.... with the same punishment if its not followed. [ie warning 1st , admin rights removed 2nd ..whatever....]

Otherwise its like the police force , when you see them speed down the road to get to the coffee shop, or talk on the phone when they drive, which I've seem quite a bit, or smoking dope, Drinking and driving, Taking the free meals, its illegal for us , it should be illegal for them, full stop. Otherwise, people don't respect them.
So, same rules for everyone NP
If not, How can you then expect, respect from others...??

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:01 am

this all started when it was decided to unban cys. even though we had screen shots of some of them. (i had screen shots on my old computer) all the rest of this is just BS public relations.

Post by **ADF-CaptCC** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:06 am

Oh nobbies,
10 % of people in jail are not gilty for the crime they have been sent there for, bummer eh...
and thats after the trial.... :['[

Post by **Fridgt** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 2:51 am

al i can say is i read that 3rd link nobbies and enen the guy that was banned said he would ahd banned for blank screenies at time didnt know abount it and u got to admit if u first seen it not knowing what it was u would think they where hiding something .. and now we know what blank pb shot are about .. also i have kick a few players no bans to make room for our members.. but if that isnt adsded into the new rules to come well our adf members will have to find another server to play on (and if room cant be made for me when needed well GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOU ALL..) lol

Post by **Wed13** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:52 am

aussie and doom shut the CENSORED up u can say im wrong all the CENSORED u want nobbies but like i CENSORED have said u WERE ALIVE be4 so when U DIED thats what u SAW. and thats what im SAYING U'S arnt getting THE whole story just ok nobbies posted first he must be right. WRONG get both sides of the STORY!

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:41 am

ADF-Baby wrote:this all started when it was decided to unban cys. even though we had screen shots of some of them. (i had screen shots on my old computer) all the rest of this is just BS public relations.

And public relations isn't something ADF should consider? That's maybe where I'm wrong here. I don't consider public relations to be BS.

Oh CapCC.
If we had a 10% failure rate this wouldn't be happening. If the general public were being put in prison because the judicial system could only get 1 out 4 cases correct like we have in the last month, that's about 25% right, there would be uproar wouldn't you say?

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:55 am

well if public relations isnt somthing we should consider, why are we? what else can you call it?

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:03 am

at the end of the day, people believe in diffent things, They hey different opinions on whats right and whats wrong and these opinions often clash....i think this is what nobbies meant my he cant see this being resolved....There is no real right or wrong in life just compromise, and this is what we are lacking.....its a way of life....so in my way of thinking the main admins need to sit down work out a set of rules that people must follow.As this is why they are in a higher position.

I think opinoins are like Ar*eholes everyone's got one and they all stink.....but thats just my opinion..

And i think i will straighten out the confusion with black screenshots....Black screen shots can definately be a hack and this is how most of them work...i know this from the large amount of PB research i have done.The trouble is a black screenshot is not a hack as you cant see anything and the hackers know this....and PB only automatically kicks for this after 10 PBSS which is far to high in my way of thinking....hell it kicks pretty much straight away for frapps and the likes.....

Post by **ADF-Medic** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:27 am

ADF-Deano wrote:PB only automatically kicks for this after 10 PBSS which is far to high in my way of thinking....hell it kicks pretty much straight away for frapps and the likes.....

So can we change this to like 3-6 or so ?.

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:42 am

ADF-Medic wrote:
ADF-Deano wrote:PB only automatically kicks for this after 10 PBSS which is far to high in my way of thinking....hell it kicks pretty much straight away for frapps and the likes.....
So can we change this to like 3-6 or so ?.

as we found out from the sn@fu guys there is a current problem with nVidia cards and the anti-aliasing......so it makes it difficult.

Post by **ADF-CaptCC** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:24 am

ADF-Nobbie wrote: Oh CapCC.
If we had a 10% failure rate this wouldn't be happening. If the general public were being put in prison because the judicial system could only get 1 out 4 cases correct like we have in the last month, that's about 25% right, there would be uproar wouldn't you say?

ahh Nobbies, i thought you might have responded to my other post, how to resolve this , ie, clear rules that everyone has to follow,
But, i guess the jail thinky was more funner eh :]']

As most of us have kicked someone off the server to make space, after we ask and no one has left, "making room for Members"

AnyHoo, I'm certain, as ADF is as Brotherhood and Sisterhood, Its will be worked out. I know from my [seven Sisters and four Brothers] it normally takes a bit of work, but we are all in this together and whats More important is US first, and then go from there.. Cheers to all ..
Its good to talk and work out the bugs of the matter , as long as we work them out, so lets not take it all to personal, and work it out
Capt out

[smilie=87.gif] [smilie=40.gif] [smilie=35.gif]

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:43 am

You have a valid point Capt and I sure am eager to resolve this and, like you, I'm sure that if everyone airs their views and we discuss, no matter how heated it gets, we'll actually resolve it and theoretically, we'll all still be mates. That's what these discussions should accomplish.

The reason for responding to the example you gave was that, the whole reason this discussion took place was because the number of mistakes being made, FOR WHATEVER REASON, was dramatically increasing and it reflects on ADF as a clan not as indivduals. If the rules were followed as quoted above, would these 3 particular problems have occurred? Probably not. It seems that the adoption is - looks a little sus - "guilty before proven innocent" and the above rule would clearly have made it "Innocent until proven guilty" by an Admin.

I've said it before, we're Server Admins but this SHOULD NOT give us the automatic right to act as we see fit. We are representatives of ADF and we should act accordingly. Even with laws firmly in place, if we are rogue policemen shouting the odds and acting however we like, you can't expect people to take the laws seriously and more importantly, take us seriously. As you said, we'll have no respect and that doesn't bode well with me

Lets begin. Everyone throw in ideas about what could constitute a good set of rules that we can incorperate into the ADF rule book. No sarcasm implied. Just gathering some ideas...........

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 11:47 am

so why arent the rules as they are set down listed in the server welcome screen, or should i say different to the ones stated in the welcome screen?

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:02 pm

You don't need rules for server Admin's when you join the server, we have them in our forum.

We have rules that scroll in chat.

Don't Swear
Don't Hack
Don't TK

If they swear Mute them
If they hack, ban them
If they TK, well they die. If it continues kick them.

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:03 pm

and dual action key binds?

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:04 pm

Ill do the rules later... gtg to work.

Post by **ADF-CaptCC** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:14 pm

Poor Sniper,, its a test, for later...its like having Kids...hahahah
Cheers m88y

Post by **Wed13** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:33 pm

well i dont know any rules really because if u looked at my post ppl have made hacks that give u CLEAR ss which basiclly means stiff poop 4 us and that is un fair but il live with it. i have contacted pb about it but yet 2 recieve an answer.

i dont know about all of us being friends because i have lost ALOT of respect 4 some members or have none at all. all i want 2 say is im over it i obided by the rules as sniper said if they swear mute them which is what i did. i did an admin message saying if he swears agian hell be muted and so on...... i hope u's can sort out rules that wont change everytime the have a cry. hope this in someway helps.

but 1 rule i think is smurf accounts i know aussie has 1 named night terrors or something like that and i dont think we should play on our server with these accounts because if u remeber ADF-dog and ADF-Pantera they did and they caused trouble with us on purpose and got kicked from ADF. i dont say aussie has or will do this but this can happen with other members.

Post by **Aussie** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:50 pm

i dont tk my honor on my smurf account is going to be higher than 40 soon...............and i dont call it a smurf i call i my noob- i use it when i want some privacy- nobody knowing who i am is somewhat relaxing-like theres no pressure

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:01 pm

i dont know about all of us being friends because i have lost ALOT of respect 4 some members or have none at all.

wed no offense m8 but that shows a very childish attitude....i thought you were better than that m8.

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:32 pm

smurf acounts are ok cos of that program we had to run. that gives another way of identifying ppl. not sure how it works but it does cos thats how we kicked noobzor

Post by **Wed13** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:43 pm

ok like i said i thought it should be a rule but the program we run i didnt relise thats what it does thxs baby 4 telling me m8. and aussie if u thing i was aiming it at u i wasnt i thought id say this just in case because ur the only member so far that i know that has a second account.

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:11 pm

ADF-Sniper wrote:Ill do the rules later... gtg to work.

at noon OMG does nobbies know your working bankers hours? [smilie=laugh[2].gif]

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 6:49 pm

I'd be happy if he did do bankers hours. At the moment I'm lucky to get ONE hours work from him let me tell ya

Post by **ADF-Shaggs** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:44 pm

Can I just say this...............................

First rule about fight club, is noone talks about fight club.

And

Secondly....... Aussie would you like some cake? I baked it myself.

Post by **ADF-BUNGY** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:22 pm

Firstly let me apologise for the length of this post, but i feel it important enough that it warrants the space.

I know I have come in a bit late on all this, but I would like to comment.

I am not taking sides, I can see that all who have contributed to the above discussion have valid points.

But to offer something to Nobbies request for suggestions I offer the following food for thought:

I want to make it very clear, my opinion on server admin is:

SERVER ADMIN IS A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT

Like many I have put my dollars in to keep it runing...as yet I have to get any real benefit from that on the playing side, but that is not important. What is important is we have our own server where we have a game server, teamspeak server and our website. For me that is fantastic...not many other clans can claim that.

Just because someone puts money into paying for the server SHOULDN'T automatically give them server admin rights, like anything else in life they should be earned by showing you are capable of discharging the responsibility that goes with it. You don't join an organisation and expect to be running the show, so why should ADF-Team be any different..

Those that have donated, if you have donated just to get server admin rights then you have donated for the wrong reason as far as I am concerned....you should be donating because you want the server to keep running not for some personal gain.

It's a shame we don't have our archives from the old site because back in April/May last year I said basically the same thing. If you give everyone server admin rights just for tossing in a few bucks then you will get a mess.

Same as when you apply to join ADF-Team the recruiters are supposed to be assessing the candidates on their maturity as well as the other aspects of their application.

I don't know the answer, maybe we have too many server admins or the ones we have should be reviewed and determine whether they have what it takes to be an admin (ie represent the ADF-Team in an administrative capacity) if they are found to be wanting then remove the privilege ...the position comes with responsibility...not to be taken lightly.

When the server idea was first mooted last year there were disagreements, at the time as to whose idea it was originally to get it running. I had the feeling then that it would turn into a poop and it appears to be heading that way, unless we do something to sort it out.

If you look at the number of kicks/ban since the server started I think you will see that NOV 2006 has the most reported with a marked decrease in the last couple of months - does that mean we have less idiots coming onto our server - I don't think so - are we being less tolerant of infractions that do occur and banning people without posting the proof first - maybe.

Also remember that we were all NOOBS once.

I can remember my fist time on a server, I was nervous, I didn't want to look an idiot...not ask stupid questions etc, but if you don't ask you don't know.

Sure I got the "What a nOOB" response to some of my questions, but I didn't let it worry me, I have been kicked from other servers for asking questions the admins thought were stupid...easy for them, they have been playing for a year or 2 and know it all. I had been playing for 2 weeks and was still learning about the game let alone know all about server etiquette, I had yet to discover ADF-Team, I didn't know what a clan was... I didn't even know what a noob was at first...but I figured it out real quick

Ask yourself why you play on the servers you do (apart from the ADF server)- what do I like about it what don't I like about the ones I have played on but won't go back to.

Why don't I like it - is it because the admins are jerks and let anything happen or is it that they are over the top and throw all and sundry off the server for minor things. Our server admins need to find the middle ground to foster a reputation as a well run server.

From what I have read in various threads in the forums it would appear - to me at least- we do not have the reputation we once did. Last year I thought we had a very good reputation and everyone seemed to have a good time with the odd 1 or 2 who were dealt with.

But if I am to believe what I am reading in the forums in the last couple of months, then our level of respect from outside players is not as high as it was. Don't tell me I have to get the whole story, I can read what is being said in the forums and quite frankly I would be embarrassed to go and play on another server for fear of being ridiculed for what has happened to people on our server.

I am truly saddened by all this in fighting for what to me seems a pretty petty thing. we have all been the victim of tk'ers , it's not fun, but hey sh1t happens....if the tk'ers want to act like children then that is no reason for us to lower ourselves to their level and kick/mute/ban on the spot, get the proof post it and have the ban put in place through the proper channels...it just makes you look like the kid who grabs his bat and ball and goes home because the other kids keep getting him out at cricket if you don't.

When we stop someone from playing on our server, we need to be 100% certain they have done something to deserve it...not just he/she was sus...get the proof to back up you claim...they don't need to be banned immediately, post you proof with your request to ban and let the powers that be do the actual banning.

kick/mute is a different subject but we have all been on servers where people are spamming...me personally it doesn't bother me I don't read most of it anyway. When I am playing the important thing is what is happening in my field of fire, not what someone has written in a message on screen. If they are not in TS they don't count (even if they are on my side)

If you kick everyone who swears on our server I don't think you will have many playing...or you will have a lot of unhappy player, same goes for TS for that matter the odd crap or something I don't mind but things like C**T, F**K etc I agree should be dealt with.

As far as hacks/game exploits go - BAN (life) no if's no but's (after the proof has been posted of course) - same goes for any ADF-Team member found to be using a hack or game exploit - expulsion from the ADF-Team, there is no place for them in the ADF-Team as far as I am concerned, if there is, then there is no room for me.

Sorry this is so long but these are a few of my random thoughts on the subject.

Back to my corner till next time...my head hurts after all that thinking...also time for a nap I think.

Post by **Fridgt** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:23 am

i like most of your points and will take them into consideration.. but you are implying that since November server admins have been doing a crap job well i am a server admin and i didnt ask to be one i only donated in hopes that occasionally the map on our server would be one i like when im on (ok its Bridge .. lol ..) so yes in a way i did expect something, does that make me a bad person? Nothing is for free nowdays (except the love from my kids ..)

also you stated and i quote "if the tk'ers want to act like children then that is no reason for us to lower ourselves to their level and kick/mute/ban on the spot, get the proof post it and have the ban put in place through the proper channels...it just makes you look like the kid who grabs his bat and ball and goes home because the other kids keep getting him out at cricket if you don't."
so we as server admins should just sit there and let it happen over and over again? well any server im on if i see this occour and no admin present i continuously try to vote them out or leave (depending on how i feel)
but i will be damed if im gonna sit there and let it happen on our server while i got power and most of all happen to ADF members or freinds of ADF (even though andrew can be a pain and u yourself want to tk him) yet i do get proof of the event and post in forums but to wait for admins to reply well it could be minutes hours days before they handle the problem thats why we are made server admins. and if admins review the offense and feel to harsh or to leaneant (spell chack cant help me with this word can you DEANO? lol) well then they take it from there.

Post by **Aussie** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:35 am

I think we should do wat the american clan [CRS] do about banning-muting.

We have 2 new forums- .-=(ADF)=-.Bans + -=(ADF)=-. Ban appeals basically if its swearing harshly like u know every Second word is %$%$ $#$% %$%# then you grab a screenshot and post it in the bans section of the forums were u can apply for a ban- i mean if they do slip the odd F..K when they die let it slide a little mayb tell them this is a non swearing server, if they disobey that- Grab the SS and Put the title Plz Ban or plz Mute _there name.

In this case a mute application should be put in. Then once the app is in the application needs 3 votes out of 5 admins for a ban So say the 5 selected banning moderators on the forums were sniper, nobbies, Bob, medic and myself then if i voted yes, nobbies voted yes, and bob voted no, medic voted no- it's up to sniper whether he's banned/muted or not...
if the ban/mute has been accepted the next admin to see him/her online on our server can carry out the actions decided and...... it's simple effective and there reputation does not exceed them they are and excellent clan.

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:15 am

Bungy, just quickly, don't go back to your corner. Your thinking is ideal and I agree whole heartedly with exactly what you are saying. 100%.

I think Aussie has taken that idea into more detail and again, I'd have to agree.

I think that our basic problem is the "Guilty till proved innocent" attitude is just wrong and that it should be the other way around. Police it and report the crime, let the judges decide the final outcome.

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:04 pm

Thankyou for your post Bungy. I'm glad you have your head together. I also agree with you and I'm glad that you have not forgotten why we donate. I think Aussie is onto a good thing with having a couple of people to judge the accused.
I have few ideas in mind which will solve all the issues, of course some people will not be happy with it, but these are the steps that needs to be put into place.

Post by **Devil** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:13 pm

Okay guys thats fair for all but when we as Admin get told (by other players to shut up and F**K off )on our server which we have to apply by the rules as Admin. When well tell then to watch their mouths or whatever they are doing wrong and we get abused for it I'm not going to stand for it as a few of u know my ss don't work for some reason unknown, i'll mute or kick asap for abusing Admin.

We as Admin are on the server to watch over it and make sure it runs well.

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:44 pm

ADF-Devil wrote:Okay guys thats fair for all but when we as Admin get told (by other players to shut up and F**K off )on our server which we have to apply by the rules as Admin. When well tell then to watch their mouths or whatever they are doing wrong and we get abused for it I'm not going to stand for it as a few of u know my ss don't work for some reason unknown, i'll mute or kick asap for abusing Admin.

We as Admin are on the server to watch over it and make sure it runs well.

ADF-Sniper wrote:If they swear Mute them

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:04 pm

ADF-Nobbie wrote:Lets begin. Everyone throw in ideas about what could constitute a good set of rules that we can incorperate into the ADF rule book

I'll start it off then

Swearing

If people swear mute them. If they continue to re-log in kick/ban for 1 dayâ€¦.with a screen shot. No screen shot no ban.

Hacking

ADF do not tolerate hackers. Permanent ban with screen shot posted in forum.

Team Killing

If TKâ€™ing occurs for whatever reason. Warn the person if they persist in TKâ€™ing people kick them. If they continue to log back in and TK. Kick/Ban 1 week. All steps should accompany a screen shot for admins to look over. E.g. take screen shot of warning, take screenshot of kick and take screen shot of kick ban.

Deano

Post by **Wed13** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:54 pm

deano im like devil my ss dont work and what about hacks that bring up clear ss we check them plus there bragging on about how he hacks. because i know devil and i arnt the only ones that cant take ss so what does that mean 4 ppl like us?

Post by **Fridgt** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:06 pm

deano me likee me likee

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:10 pm

ADF-Wed13 wrote:deano im like devil my ss dont work

why wont it work....what does it produce........

try Shot in the console that is the manual way to take a screen shot.

if it still wont work remove your armyops.ini and user.ini file and start the game up as this will create a new one.also check once youve done that to make sure the F8 button is actually set for screen shot in the control section of the game

if that works you could even bind it in the user.ini file.

e.g. NumPad0=Shot

you can always press the print screen button and paste it into Microsoft Paint.

ADF-Wed13 wrote:what about hacks that bring up clear ss we check them plus there bragging on about how he hacks.

You must have a screen shot.unfortunately not all hackers are caught....its like dvd encryption....they bring out new encryption and its cracked within 2 days....thats the way it will always be....thats how the game goes for anyone not happy with that...well they shouldnt be playing the game.

Post by **Fridgt** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:42 pm

good idea deano take scrren shots of them bragging bout hacking then what .. kick? 5 minute kick ban??

u commin up with some good fair ideas deano maby u should bring them up with sniper

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:49 pm

ADF-Fridgt wrote:good idea deano take scrren shots of them bragging bout hacking then what .. kick? 5 minute kick ban??

u commin up with some good fair ideas deano maby u should bring them up with sniper

you must have screen shot it's that simple......

Post by **Devil** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:54 pm

Well Deano i tried all the things u said to do and to no luck still doesn't work!!

If for some reason i can't get a ss what then i'll just have to trow the towel in and say hey stiff sh it my ss don't work so they get away with it!!

i'm not having a go at anyone but with the swearing side of things all players that come on to our server see the rules and if they choose not to abide them well they aren't welcome back with a big kick up the bum no ss should be needed for that.(rules are rules you break them goodbye),

It's alright for u guys to keep saying take a ss but most of the times you can't
for any reason!(not everyone can remember to take a ss).

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:23 pm

ADF-Devil wrote:Well Deano i tried all the things u said to do and to no luck still doesn't work!!

print screen has nothing to do with the game....it's O/S operated.and explain what happens when you take a screen shot.

ADF-Devil wrote:rules are rules you break them goodbye

your right there

The rule is take SS if you cant you dont ban...or get someone that can if available it is that simple.We all have to follow the rules.

For all those that cant get screen shots to work download fraps.and set it up.

Post by **Doom** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:26 pm

OMFG If you dont no how to screenshot you must be freaking retarded!!! there are so many dam ways to screenshot next its gonna be weres the F8 key or Print screen key....i have no keyboard........Fraps doesnt work a dahhhhhh jeez

Post by **Fridgt** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:48 pm

doom you really got to lean to read correctly no one said they dont know how to, they said they where having trouble

Post by **Aussie** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:01 pm

Actually fridgt if it isnt working...You dont know how...u ca use Fraps...F8 or Printscreen or even the manual command Shot.......

Post by **ADF-BUNGY** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:13 pm

I don't want to seem stupid or anything but for me rules are guidlines for the admins to follow. Not hard and fast.

For example it says no swearing (kick player) - so what do we do mute/kick for saying cr.ap, bu.gger, bl.oody etc or do we let the commonly used stuff get by and pull then up when they starting using the CENSORED stuff like F**K, SH!T etc.

if you want hard and fast rules they need to be considered, that's where the admin has to use their judgement and decide what is worthy of kick/mute and what is not or do you apply the blanket principle and mute everyone and be done with it. Seems a bit simple to do the latter. And could lead to more problems.

Out of curiosity, the admins that have been kicking/muting people recently for swearing - what was said to justify the mute/kick. I have read that they were warned and continued, but what caused the warning?
I am not having a go at anyone, but, I think it will be helpful to others to see where the bar is set in regards to what is and is not swearing etc. There seems to be an un-natural obsession with some about this subject.

As for admins being abused we need to look at all ADF-Team members who are on the server and make sure that they aren't part of the problem by all trying to do the job of an admin when they don't have admin rights. I mean are they telling others to shut up, stop this stop that, because if they are - then they are part of the problem in my opinion (in my opinion).

Sure I will gett some stick for that but think about in real life, you are part of a group and everyone in the group is giving instructions to everyone else at the same time - eventually no listens to anyone because it is to confusing not to mention annoying. So the end result is everyone does what they want and no one is able to keep control.

Only the admins should be pulling up people who break the rules, not any ADF member who happens to be on it at the time and decides to be the server sherriff.

Just think how you would handle this situation - If you are an admin on our server and there are a number of our members (who aren't admins) osting messages all the time telling all and sundry on the server what to do or not do - what would you do? Pull up our members for posting the spam, probably not, but you should after all we want others to behave on our server why should we expect anything less from our own just because it is our server. If someone has done something wrong then they should be warned and our guys who start getting involved should be reminded to let the admins handle it and not inflame the situation.

I'm sorry but to me admin is a thankless job as you will from time to time kick your own. You can't play favorites, otherwise we will all be tared with the same brush and our rep will suffer as a result.

I don't know about anyone else, but I like to be made welcome when I go to other servers, have people say how they like playing on our server etc. We need to maintain that reputation as a matter of priority.

Anyway...I'll go again and think about this some more.. :0

Post by **ADF-Deano** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:51 pm

ADF-BUNGY wrote:cr.ap, bu.gger, bl.oody etc or do we let the commonly used stuff get by and pull then up when they starting using the CENSORED stuff like F**K, SH!T etc.

its funny you bring that up bungy....i watched a show 3 months ago on fox that was about how things have changed.......they had a poll on swearing and 72% of Australians that took that poll considered most swear words as normal words know and only considered F**K and C**T as major swear words.....

and you are right we shouldn't have to have rules as strict as these but this is what it has come to....you make a very good point and in my opinion its the thought of having to submit screen shots to admins is what will calm things down.Its not a simple method of ban and no ones the wiser anymore

if people cant decide for themselves....we have an age limit on being a member maybe an age limit on being an admin to.

Post by **ADF-Nobbie** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:22 pm

My opinion is that, before any action is taken, take a screeny and publish it on the forum and let someone decide. I've seen, time and time again, a situation where it escalates into something much more serious when it starts off as something so small. Like I mentioned before, you can goad someone very easily, into a verbal tirade with little effort. I have to say here that Bungy must has seen example of what I have seen to draw similar conclusions.

If you ask me, the rules should be simple and I don't believe that leaving it up to individual interpretation is going to achieve much at all. My idea of an insult and how they are delivered varies a great deal from what others would think. Is my interpretation right or wrong? Who knows? And the problem is that there cannot be a common ground if we have to use out own judgement because I'm different from him, different from her and different from them. We only have to look through this post to see that some language is acceptable whereas on the server, it would not be accepted.

I'll say it again:
In my opinion - It takes a long time to build trust and only moments to lose it. When we get it right, no-one speaks, but when we get it wrong it takes a lot of back pedaling. It's not a personal mistake we make it's an ADF mistake.

None of this is about us as individuals by even the slightest stretch of the imagination. I think we need to protect ADF's image with the server users and ensure that we don't get it wrong and, frankly and to the point, as server Admins and players, we are representing ADF and we need to put our personl issues aside. If that means that we have to take some of the decision making away, so be it.

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:47 pm

ADF-Doom wrote:OMFG If you dont no how to screenshot you must be freaking retarded!!! there are so many dam ways to screenshot next its gonna be weres the F8 key or Print screen key....i have no keyboard........Fraps doesnt work a dahhhhhh jeez

that has got to be the most stupid statement in this thread. try reading next time doom.

Post by **ADF-Baby** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:58 pm

ADF-BUNGY wrote:As for admins being abused we need to look at all ADF-Team members who are on the server and make sure that they aren't part of the problem by all trying to do the job of an admin when they don't have admin rights. I mean are they telling others to shut up, Â stop this stop that, because if they are - Â then they are part of the problem in my opinion (in my opinion).

Sure I will gett some stick for that but think about in real life, you are part of a group and everyone in the group is giving instructions to everyone else at the same time - eventually no listens to anyone because it is to confusing not to mention annoying. So the end result is everyone does what they want and no one is able to keep control.

Only the admins should be pulling up people who break the rules, not any ADF member who happens to be on it at the time and decides to be the server sherriff.

Just think how you would handle this situation - If you are an admin on our server and there are a number Â of our members (who aren't admins) osting messages all the time telling all and sundry on the server what to do or not do - what would you do? Pull up our members for posting the spam, probably not, but you should after all we want others to behave on our server why should we expect anything less from our own just because it is our server. If someone has done something wrong then they should be warned and our guys who start getting involved should be reminded to let the admins handle it and not inflame the situation.

If i'm in the server when adf members are doing that (wether i'm admin or not) usualy we're both on ts usualy in the same channel so i tell them to cut it out. if they keep it up then if i'm admin and they refuse to stop i'll kick them from the server. if i'm not an admin at the time i'll get on msn and hunt down tyc or sniper or medic or oz and let them deal with it. and before you say "you wouldnt kick a team member" i would and have.

Post by **Wed13** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:19 pm

baby i agree with u there and deano did what u wanted and it doesnt work fraps i havnt tried yet will try on the weekend. and with the print screen i cant find out where they save them iv look all through my comp and cant find it.

and with this whole post it thing and a decion will be made asap wont work as well as u think because 1 flaw iv seen already is who's gonna remember 20 or so names if u made a list that would apear each time an admin logs on that would healp but if not it will be hard.

Post by **ADF-Sniper** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 8:29 pm

Thank you Bungy for the wisdom in your post and I agree with you 100%, except I can not extract the wonderful words out of my own head. I think we should put in place a new set of rules. I think it would be a great idea to have two members to have final judgment on each ban.

The members I find suitable for this job would be Deano and Nobbies due to their great wealth of knowledge in this area. I select these two members because I trust their judgment to make the right decisions about disciplining players on the server.
It's up to them if they want to accept this job.

Below is what I have started work on.

No one but the two judges can ban a player.

Players that TK must be warned not to TK any other member, otherwise they will be kicked. To kick a TK'er use punkbuster. Punkbuster kicking requires two members or one ADF Admin, which will kick player for one hour. If there are no players or admins on at the time then you will just have to live with a votekick.

Server admins must mute a player swearing on the server after a warning. If the player continues to reconnect to avoid the mute then use the punkbuster kick as mentioned above.

If a player has been caught hacking by a punkbuster screenshot and is currently on the server. You must get the permission from one of the judges or an ADF-Admin before you can kick a player.

There is always someone online! You can find them in Teamspeak, send them a PM using the forum. If you cannot get in contact with anyone start a votekick or leave the server.

Post by **Fridgt** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:33 pm

well if you pb kick them usually they wont return for a while anyway. i assume screenies are required. so we still will be able to administer authority when reqired and maby there should be a thread in adf members area to post only the incident and talk related go into another thread or topic. seems like u on the ball sniper ...